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double action accuracy

This is a discussion on double action accuracy within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; I picked up a p226 9mm and a p229 357 sig this summer. I notice that the first shot--double action--is not as accurate as the ...


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Old 09-03-2020, 02:26 PM   #1
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double action accuracy

I picked up a p226 9mm and a p229 357 sig this summer. I notice that the first shot--double action--is not as accurate as the subsequent single action shots. I've been practicing this a lot and accuracy has improved with practice, but are there any suggestions or short-cuts (since ammo is scarce these days). Thanks, TG
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Old 09-03-2020, 02:29 PM   #2
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by hauki View Post
I picked up a p226 9mm and a p229 357 sig this summer. I notice that the first shot--double action--is not as accurate as the subsequent single action shots. I've been practicing this a lot and accuracy has improved with practice, but are there any suggestions or short-cuts (since ammo is scarce these days). Thanks, TG

Yes practice is critical for fist shot DA.


As cost of ammo at this time very high, maybe a laser training using your pistol.





Here is one of many

https://www.g-sight.com
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Old 09-03-2020, 02:37 PM   #3
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There are no shortcuts.

Practice you must, improve you will!
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Old 09-03-2020, 02:44 PM   #4
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Buy a snap cap and dry fire a bunch at home. The trigger stroke is a little different. Concentrate on curling your finger. You know those party favors made of paper that you blow into and it unfurls ... Think about what that looks like as it curls back up. Now imagine your finger replicating that. It's kind of a muscle thing.

Now after you have ensured that you have a snap cap in place line up those sights and give it a go. If you see the sights move ... Try again. It doesn't have to be slow just smooth and a curl. You will get to the point you can reliably do it one handed and not see the sights move.

Don't spend any more money on ammo until you can reliably keep the sights still with two hands. I like to use the TV. This way I can move the gun from character to character and engage the trigger.

But

BE SAFE!

Last edited by boriqua; 09-03-2020 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 09-03-2020, 03:17 PM   #5
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Or you could get one of those laser cartridge dry fire setups. You can do a lot of practice and not have to expend ammo. And all your practice with a P226 will be double action unless you cock the hammer. Sometimes I do a five shot string, first one DA, the rest SA. Not as fast as shooting live ammo but you use both DA & SA. But I do mostly DA because I need the practice.
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Old 09-03-2020, 03:22 PM   #6
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Second on the dry fire practice.
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Old 09-03-2020, 05:33 PM   #7
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Dry firing, and a laser cartridge have merit, you may even try and find a rimfire conversion for cheaper .22 long rifle use. The double action first shot trigger action is much longer, and heavier. Remember, the key is Point of Aim, Point of Impact being the same, with "Combat Accuracy". Remember most "Target grade" arms are SAO for a reason!
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Old 09-03-2020, 06:34 PM   #8
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Is your Left hand grip tight ??? If it is then tighten a little more

Once you start to pull the trigger don't stop until it goes bang

Don't think about the pull , concentrate on the front sight
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Old 09-03-2020, 06:56 PM   #9
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OP,
No gimmicks/cost required.

Take a fired case.
Remove the magazine.
Clear the pistol.
Check it again.
Grip the frame w/ strong hand.
Place the fired case behind the front sight.
Raise the pistol.
Take aim.
Slowly squeeze the trigger.
Concentrate on the front sight,the rear sight will follow.
Squeeze
Hammer drops.
Hold the trigger to over travel.
Slowly release the trigger until it resets.CLICK.

When the case falls off the slide...the trigger actuator is JERKING the trigger.


Practice
Practice
Until repeated trigger cycles are achieved w/o knocking the fired case off the slide.
Speed up the process of squeezing/releasing/take up to hammer release.

The same technique works w/ any handgun.
.
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Old 09-03-2020, 06:59 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hauki View Post
I picked up a p226 9mm and a p229 357 sig this summer. I notice that the first shot--double action--is not as accurate as the subsequent single action shots. I've been practicing this a lot and accuracy has improved with practice, but are there any suggestions or short-cuts (since ammo is scarce these days). Thanks, TG
All good advice from others. I own those as well. Even after 20,000+ rounds fired in the past year plus, I still suffer a bit from flinch in SA shooting, unless I am shooting fast. I actually shoot better in DA when I am shooting slow, I think because my mind tends to focus more on the front sight and trigger squeeze versus the boom (ok, in either case I shoot well enough for self defence but not well enough for stardard bullseye competition (age and progressive lenses limitations).

One thing that has helped me on the DA shooting is to reduce the trigger pull weigh by purchasing and installing The Sig Armorer Superstrut and reduced weight mainspring. His slightly modified hammer strut and the smoothing of its edges helps smooth out the DA pull. And he uses a 20# mainstring instead of the 21#(?) the pistol ships with. I also have a supply of Wolff 19# mainsprings and will switch those in and try. Some folks have even gone down to 18# and 17# but other have reported light primer strikes on the 17#.
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Old 09-04-2020, 12:58 AM   #11
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I shoot IPSC so my advice comes from that viewpoint. Take it for what it's worth.

Already on the draw, I try to get the trigger right at or at least pretty close to "the wall". That way, as soon as I see the sights I am ready to fire and the shot will be much morer precise than if I wait for the sights to be aligned and THEN start pressing the trigger.

I also dryfire a lot, closely watching how the sight behave as I pull the trigger. Sometimes I do it with a timer, trying to pull the trigger in a set amount of time (0,6 seconds or something) smoothly without disturbing the sights.

You can do the first exercise I mentioned as well with a timer. Set the timer so it beeps twice; once for start and once for stop. When the first beep comes, draw and aim. When the second beep comes, you should already have prepped the trigger enough so it's pretty close to the wall, ready to shoot.

As far as mainspring goes. I've gone down as low as 15 lbs in my X-Five Allround but experienced light strikes about once every 200 rounds. I ran a 16 lbs spring for about 3000 rounds before experiencing light strikes and a 17 lbs for 5000.
I am now running a 19lbs spring which has close to 7000 rounds on it (of course, I have never ran the gun for more than 500 rounds without cleaning). The difference between a 19 and 17 lbs spring is hardly noticeable. 15-16 lbs I notice a bit but I didn't like how the gun handled (much snappier, "violent" recoil).
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Old 09-04-2020, 05:34 AM   #12
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DA while target shooting has always been a beef with many.

However, in close quarter drills as in draw and fire as in a gun fight there is little difference

As I like to say under extreme duress I am just as bad with my DA and my SA.

There is almost no difference in feel under duress. heck I can't feel any difference with SRT and regular either

Range shooting, matches and target practice is where the DA is a much bigger difference

Maybe others experience it different than I do
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Old 09-04-2020, 05:59 AM   #13
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Good advice from those that recommend dry fire and a laser training cartridge. A good grip is also critical with any shooting but especially helps with DA. Use your strong hand to pinch the pistol grip front to back into your hand and use your support hand to provide side to side pressure on the pistol grip. With DA do not stage the trigger in DA at "the wall" but use a quick but smooth press all the way through without jerking.


Of course a pistol with excellent DA pull will help. SIGs usually have a pretty good DA pull out of the of box but a change to a lighter hammer spring can improve it but one does not want to go too light or you may get light strikes. With classic SIGs I have read that 18 and 19 pound springs work well in that regard. Trigger pull quality will also improve somewhat with use including dry firing.

Of course improving grip and forearm strength can help quite a bit. Below is a link to an adjustable grip strengthener that has worked well for me.

https://www.amazon.com/MummyFit-Stre...-4&tag=mh0b-20

The videos below may be helpful.





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Last edited by Sigarms228; 09-04-2020 at 06:18 AM.
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:40 AM   #14
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A lot of good videos from Langdon as illustrated above. And the fact that he emphasizes the DA/SA system should encourage one when swimming thru all the internet chatter about different systems. Also worth considering that Ben Stoeger, Frank Proctor, etc can somehow manage with an “antiquated” system. Each system has its pros & cons. If a striker system was foolproof, we wouldn’t constantly read of the tragic deaths of innocent bystanders that occur when a few rival gang members start spraying at each other.

Don’t let the internet convince you that the DA/SA system is outdated.
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Old 09-04-2020, 11:54 AM   #15
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Learn better trigger control by dry firing. A couple of good exercises. First, ensure no ammo in the room and none in the gun.

Balance a nickle just behind the front sight, and pull the trigger double action without disturbing the nickle.

Get a No. 2 pencil, cover the metal eraser mount with tape to protect the bore, and do the ballistic pencil exercise.

Put the pencil in the barrel so that the eraser is against the breech. Position about 5 inches from a piece of paper with a "O" clearly marked as a target aim point. Pull the trigger causing the pencil to exit the barrel, and leave a dot on the paper. Do this multiple times until you get the dots quite close together double action.
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