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This is a discussion on SIG quality within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; you know, it's sad that you "in the know" people start such **** about things without a sred of proof. "The 224 is shrunk down ...


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Old 09-22-2012, 05:44 PM   #16
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you know, it's sad that you "in the know" people start such **** about things without a sred of proof. "The 224 is shrunk down adn breaks after a few hundred rounds" .. BULLSH*T! if that were true all subbie revolvers woud shatter after a couple hundred round. all the compact xdms would die. if thats so true explain how the P250 can convert to a full size from a sub and back and no problems? from the specs I saw the p224 is EXACTLY THE SAME as a 229 except it's shortened. you honestly expect me to believe that the design that can handle a .40 or .357 round cannot handle a 9mm because i's an inch shorter? GMAFB. if you have proof that "they are breaking" then POST IT otherwise SHUT THE FU*K UP
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Old 09-22-2012, 05:58 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteguy904 View Post
you know, it's sad that you "in the know" people start such **** about things without a sred of proof. "the 224 is shrunk down adn breaks after a few hundred rounds" .. Bullsh*t! If that were true all subbie revolvers woud shatter after a couple hundred round. All the compact xdms would die. If thats so true explain how the p250 can convert to a full size from a sub and back and no problems? From the specs i saw the p224 is exactly the same as a 229 except it's shortened. You honestly expect me to believe that the design that can handle a .40 or .357 round cannot handle a 9mm because i's an inch shorter? Gmafb. If you have proof that "they are breaking" then post it otherwise shut the fu*k up
amen!
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Old 09-22-2012, 06:07 PM   #18
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Boringly efficient

I've fired a 229 (.40 cal), 239 (9mm) and an SP2022 (9mm) for years and they have been boringly efficient. No problems, accurate, and the finish on all three is about as good as the day I bought them.
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:17 PM   #19
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There's a lot changing at Sig and has been since Cohen took over. Those of us who have been a Sig fan from the beginning forecast what would happen with him in control and, sadly, it is coming true.

Cost-cutting is job #1 at Sig today. The production move from Germany to the U.S. has been a disaster. Modern production Sigs are a shame when compared to the beautiful craftmanship of 20 years ago.

Job #2 is one that has swept the entire industry: modify all guns so that females can shoot them. This is a mandate from the government, as women continue to flood the military and LEO departments across the country. E2 grips and "short" triggers are the result.

Job #3 is also one sweeping the industry: make all guns smaller. In Sig's case, that isn't going well. When they decided to get outside their comfort zone, and create something new (like the P290), it was a disaster. The P220 Carry was originally a disaster, as the shorter slide caused the gun to fail after just a few hundred rounds with all the pounding. After numerous modifications, Sig has mostly made the P220 Carry function correctly but we still don't know for sure what the gun's reliability will be after many thousands of rounds. The same is true of the P224. They have taken a proven design and tried to "shrink" it. It isn't working. The P224 is a nightmare for Sig. The gun cannot handle the increased pressure being exerted in such a smaller design and it is breaking after just a few hundred rounds. There's a chance the P224 will never be released and, if it is, it's going to be a while. Like I said earlier, it's a nightmare for Sig.

The guns that Sig is making in Exeter, the ones that have a history of success, are mostly ok. They are not as tight as their predecessors but they function. The new guns, the ones Sig is trying to invent to compete in the industry and to satisfy government demands, are not doing well. They are cheapening the reputation of a once dominant gun manufacturer. That description will never fit Sig again as long as Cohen is there.
As to #1, I have P226's that are all German triple serial proofed guns, hybrid German frame/American slide guns and an all American Exeter made gun. I just don't see the huge difference in performance with the exception being that the milled American slide guns appear to be ore durable. I just don't see the disaster. As to #2, saying the government (which level by the way Federal? State? Local?) is mandating guns be easier for females to shoot is a pretty strong statement. Can you point me to the specific law that "mandates" this. If your talking about agencies wanting guns that will fit a wider number of hands that's just responding to your customer. By the way, I have bigger then average hands can palm a basketball for one handed dunks (well at least when I could still get up that high) and I think the E2 grip is outstanding. As to #3, as soon as you've put 1000 or so rounds through the P224 your using for evaluation let us know how it's working. Can't really make any assessments before that, and yes I know it's not out yet, that's the point. If Sig is holding back because of teething issues good for them, that's a point in their favor for me.
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Old 09-24-2012, 08:53 AM   #20
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my new p226 has no quality issues. Every sig I looked at in my search for my first sig looked perfect. Everyone I know who has a sig has a newer one that runs perfect. I really doubt sig quality control is worse than the other manufactures from what I've seen. All company's have lemons and sometimes one lemon gets posted on multiple forums, multiple times, which make the issue seem greater than it really is. As for everyone saying older guns had better quality control. What if the quality control is still similar, but the fact is back in the 90's internet forums were not as popular as they are now (not to mention lots of people did not have internet at home). What if its just that the lemons were not broadcasted like they are today.
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Old 09-24-2012, 09:38 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micropterus View Post
Here's the real difference between Sig and Glock:

Glock introduces a perfectly reliable gun and turns it into a turd.
Sig introduces a turd and turns it into a perfectly reliable gun.
part of why me & several other folks have stuck with g3 glocks.
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:07 PM   #22
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part of why me & several other folks have stuck with g3 glocks.
On glocktalk they are saying g3's can have problems as well with the MIM extractor/ejector
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Old 09-24-2012, 12:25 PM   #23
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"can", i had 6 gen 3's at one point & never had any issues & do choose the gen3 g30 for sd/hd.

i just went to glocktalk & didn't look thru everything & didn't see any issues of what you mentioned.

post links to threads with the problem.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:22 PM   #24
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"can", i had 6 gen 3's at one point & never had any issues & do choose the gen3 g30 for sd/hd.

i just went to glocktalk & didn't look thru everything & didn't see any issues of what you mentioned.

post links to threads with the problem.
Here is one quick example from glocktalk: Gen 3 dip extractor - Glock Talk

I have seen similar issues on ar15.com and m4carbine.net as well. From what i've read the problems with the Gen 4's are not necessarily a RSA problem anymore, but are also coming from the MIM ejectors/extractors.

I'm not trying to bash glocks or anything, i own 4 of them and a 19 was my first ever handgun purchase, i'm just saying that based on posts, it appears there is still an issue going on with them.
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Old 09-24-2012, 07:45 PM   #25
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thanks for the link
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Old 09-25-2012, 02:32 AM   #26
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There are those who bash Sig because there Top Tier pistols and top pick. There not 500 dollar or less value polymere's. I will say that Glock is the top of the value polymere pistol's. They are the top pick pistol by the Elite Military units of many country's. Our Coast Guard,Secret Service,Homeland,Seal's,Army CID, U.S. Airmen,L.E. Brtish SAS,Commando's ,Canadian Commando's and many ,many other country's. How do you say ,Sig ,The worlds top pick combat pistol. Get one you will be well armed.
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Old 09-25-2012, 03:55 AM   #27
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Good point. There are always those that won't pony up the bucks or the "it's just as good" mentality that justifies their purchase. If you can't see or feel the difference in quality then you might as well save your money and buy in your comfort zone of handguns. It's the same with cars, watches,etc.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by jeep View Post
There are those who bash Sig because there Top Tier pistols and top pick. There not 500 dollar or less value polymere's. I will say that Glock is the top of the value polymere pistol's. They are the top pick pistol by the Elite Military units of many country's. Our Coast Guard,Secret Service,Homeland,Seal's,Army CID, U.S. Airmen,L.E. Brtish SAS,Commando's ,Canadian Commando's and many ,many other country's. How do you say ,Sig ,The worlds top pick combat pistol. Get one you will be well armed.

Last edited by Mystro; 09-25-2012 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:15 AM   #28
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I'm in the camp that believes sig is perfectly fine. I've read soooo much on Sig's that I felt comfortable placing my money down on one.

IF, IF - there are problems, that's what warranties are for. And like any new product, there may be a glitch. You see it in new model cars all the time.

The guy posting about making smaller guns for women to use as a negative point for Sig - wow... Sig's selling guns to women too. And to guys with smaller hands. It's just good customer service and business.

The realities of today's world demand that Sig stay competitive and introduce new models, which take some time to get right. Guns have evolved into very intricate pieces of equipment with thousands of variables. You can't predict everything in a lab. No business can put a product into years and years of field testing before producing.

And all this stuff about "back in the 70's and 80's there was no quality issues". Baloney. Humans can't make things as precise as a machine can. Sorry, but it's true. They didn't have the internet either, where people can come and complain for the world to see. So, one guy with one gun, maybe a buddy gets the same gun, it works perfect for 20 years, and then that one guy will proclaim that "I never heard of anything like that about MY gun". That's because the group of people talked to is really small.

I'm sort of glad this topic ended back in September. And I had mixed feeling about replying to it, but oh well.

Sig is fine. Buy one of the established models that have had years and years of field use to work the bugs out.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:20 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by MLJak View Post
And all this stuff about "back in the 70's and 80's there was no quality issues". Baloney. Humans can't make things as precise as a machine can. Sorry, but it's true. I'm sort of glad this topic ended back in September. And I had mixed feeling about replying to it, but oh well.

Sig is fine. Buy one of the established models that have had years and years of field use to work the bugs out.
I agree. Back then SIG produced just as many turkeys as anybody else. They are good, maybe even great. They ARE NOT perfect. Nobody is an dto say other wise is ignorant of the speaker.
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Old 12-30-2012, 03:22 PM   #30
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Red face

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I agree. Back then SIG produced just as many turkeys as anybody else. They are good, maybe even great. They ARE NOT perfect. Nobody is an dto say other wise is ignorant of the speaker.
+1

I think any manufacturer can make a turd and they sometimes happen. SIG provided great support for the x-change kit I bought that had a barrel issue. I initially had some reservations and bad feelings because I got a lemon but it was an easy issue to resolve. Kit is perfect now and I'm a happy customer.
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