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Carrying loaded

This is a discussion on Carrying loaded within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; Originally Posted by Kenny D My LC9 has a thumb safety. I stand corrected. Do all the LC9s have manual thumb safeties? I might have ...


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Old 01-02-2013, 08:00 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny D View Post
My LC9 has a thumb safety.
I stand corrected. Do all the LC9s have manual thumb safeties? I might have gotten confused with the LCP.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:03 PM   #47
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LEO training covers this for you and most would suggest you utilize your sights on your belt or pants to rack the slide. My question is, in what situation would you only be able to utilize one hand?
I've tried racking off the belt, well, practiced it. Hinky and chintzy at best. A lot of us have a shirt that covers our belt. It's an excellent skill to learn, no doubt, but not something I want to open with. I'd rather carry one in the chamber and reserve racking to situations when I NEED to.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:13 PM   #48
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There's a lot to be said for this issue of prepared confidence and concealed carry.

Discussions like this one merit careful consideration and self-knowledge; training in situation assessment and some decision making in advance. Most of us are not even proficient in bringing a weapon to bear; have you drawn from a concealed holster and fired [remotely accurately] a thousand times? Five thousand times? Shouldn't we do this at a minimum, before we stroll through our communities carrying a lethal weapon?

This is not about home defense, I am talking about concealed carry. I agree with those who believe if one is going to carry, that he/she should be fully prepared to act, one in the pipe. What I am concerned about is that concealed carry should be restricted to those who are genuinely prepared to safely carry concealed. This preparation requires instant and accurate threat assessment, complete competence with the firearm you are carrying [and under stress], with that firearm loaded with the right ammo for the job, demonstrated mental preparedness, and a commitment to act against lethal threat.

Deliberation at the moment when action should be taken will burn precious time. Some situations are crystal clear. Many are not. Most of us can shoot an intruder threatening our families and where the threat is undeniable. These situations have nothing to do with carrying as we go about our lives. Someone is holding a gun on someone else in the parking lot as you stop for a quart of milk. You have a gun at your head before you even comprehend, "This is a mugging!" You are third in line at the busy cash register when the robber two ahead of you in line pulls a weapon, and both retail situations include a dozen people sprinkled within 25 feet...

I realize is not news, but the required training for receiving a permit is just simply inadequate. Most states are issuing permits with inadequate training, some with none at all.

The responsibilities of concealed carry are tremendous, and only begin with a permit. Instances where concealed carriers draw and fire often begin and end in seconds, with several rounds fired at close quarters. It is one thing to discuss and casually punch holes in paper, but hugely something else to draw a weapon from concealment, bring it to bear, and fire accurately at another person. Untrained shooters uncertain in a very frightening situation, mentally unprepared to shoot, can easily draw a weapon, hesitate, spook a bad guy and cause a shooting. Training and more training can make the process much faster, but when it comes time to shoot at someone, and hit what one is firing at, it's a different ballgame.

More important, look at all the incidents when trained law enforcement trade shots with bad guys from a few feet away and neither parties even hit their targets! With your heart beating out of your shirt, it's damned hard to get your shirt tail out of the way. Your hands have never sweat at the range like they'll be sweating if you are faced with drawing your weapon on a bad guy, you'll be lucky not to drop your weapon.

Faced with all this and more, the fact is many of us will do a better job of p***ing down our legs than taking a shot[s] that will take an assailant out of the fight.

So to the issue of carrying with one in the chamber, absolutely. If I am going to be prepared to defend myself, I want the shortest possible amount of time between recognizing I am in a life threatening situation, and defending myself, down to the micro second.

I absolutely believe in the right to carry, concealed or not. I simply believe all of us need 'way more training than most states require to issue concealed carry permits. In these situations, something beats nothing, but I sure would be more comfortable if I thought those carrying were prepared and proficient.
Great advice. Thank you for sharing.
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Old 01-03-2013, 04:21 AM   #49
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It was the design of the gun that bothered me I have since been carrying a Bersa 380 loaded nd haven't thought twice about it and am in the process of trading for a 239. The design of the hammer on the 290 was the only thing I didn't like.
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Old 01-03-2013, 05:03 AM   #50
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I carry my P290 in a good pocket holster and have no worries carrying chambered. This pistol has a long trigger pull on a par with the LC9 but if you don't have the confidence to carry it, get a pistol with a safety and practice, practice and practice.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:18 AM   #51
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Brandishing is displaying your weapon in a threatening manor. Having your shirt raise above a iwb weapon is not brandishing, if anything you could call it open carry, but not brandishing.
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Old 01-03-2013, 06:40 AM   #52
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If you watch the self defense shows on TV, the one thing they stress is there is no one perfect answer to every threat response. There are mulitple ways to deal with an attack from a knife or gun, and each can be effective (or be countered), you have to have the mindset and practice to engage or, often better, flee. Mental preparedness, and quick thinking are most often key to responding. I have never heard any of the experts claim that cocked and locked is the only way to carry, the Israeli draw is used by MOSAD when they are in public situations quite effectively, and its something I practice standing, sitting, and lying down with snap caps all the time. For the average citizen, its much more important that you are comfortable with what ever system you decide to use to defend yourself, and practice constantly, and always be aware of your surroundings when you carry a loaded weapon. Most of us will never pull a weapon our entire lives, so carrying safely and confidently within your own abilities (not someone elses) is paramount. Having a CPL should not be viewed as becoming a cop, its for PERSONAL defense, every situation requires quick evaluation, and if you have not trained in an immediate, stressful environment, you could make a situation much worse by just pulling and firing away no matter how "fast" you are.
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Old 01-03-2013, 09:40 AM   #53
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The problem with not having one in the chamber is facing a threat. If you have to deploy your weapon, you have to draw, rack, point, aim, and fire. With the 21 foot rule, an attacker with a knife closer then 21 feet can close the distance before most trained officers can draw and deliever fire on the threat. If you're going to carry with an empty chamber then I would say you need to do a lot of practice so you can draw, rack, and fire accurately. If you carry with one in the chamber then you should still do a lot of practice to draw and fire accurately. Which ever you do start slowly taking one step at a time, and building your skills.
Remember "train as you fight, fight as you train"
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:41 AM   #54
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I realize is not news, but the required training for receiving a permit is just simply inadequate. Most states are issuing permits with inadequate training, some with none at all.

I absolutely believe in the right to carry, concealed or not. I simply believe all of us need 'way more training than most states require to issue concealed carry permits. In these situations, something beats nothing, but I sure would be more comfortable if I thought those carrying were prepared and proficient.
In PA there is absolutely no required training at all and it's a scary thought. While I have a lot of experience with rifles and shotguns, I had only shot handguns on two occasions before my recent purchase once about 15 years ago and again this past Summer. I took the initiative and read as much as I could about handgun safety, operation and handling before my purchase, but it was all theory. I had to educate the sales associate on how to operate my P232 before I had ever held one. I left the store not knowing anything more about my handgun than I had read on the Internet and I was at the range shooting it 2 days later. A week after that I took a simple application and $20 to the County Sheriff's office, waited 10 minutes, got my picture taken and was handed my CWP. Now I'm licensed to carry. I actually want to get training but I haven't found a free or reasonably priced source yet. Until I do get some training I certainly will not be carrying. But I seriously doubt many others have my mind set. It just makes sense that everyone should be required to have some sort of formal training by a licensed professional.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:37 AM   #55
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I attended a Defensive Handgun course - excellent course. A "round in the chamber or not" was a very lengthy and sometimes semi-heated discussion. My decision was, if you make the decision to carry concealed - then you should carry one in the chamber. If you don't trust your weapon, then get another pistol. I like the Sig because of the decocker. I put one in the chamber, decock the pistol, take the mag out and replace the bullet in the chamber, reinsert the mag and put the pistol back in the holster. That pistol is safe and ready to for anything I need it for. What do you think?

Let me add, I agree with the training before carrying. I had my basic pistol training in the military (24 years). I took an NRA Basic pistol course as a refresher. I then took a Defensive Pistol course, and finally an enhanced concealed carry course. Learned something with each course. This training was with private instructors that I selected. Highly recommend all the training you can get!

Last edited by mgentry4; 01-03-2013 at 11:46 AM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:00 PM   #56
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Don't mistake my comments for acceptance of excessive or unconstitutional regulation, merely acknowledgment of regulations that exist in many states.

The point I seek to make is that regardless of carry rules or absence of them, the challenges of responsible concealed carry are many and require extensive preparation and consideration in advance.

Most who carry should limit their engagement to direct self-defense. As well put above, I "Highly recommend all the training you can get."
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:21 PM   #57
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I carry my semi-autos with exterior hammers like I do my revolvers, hammers down and double action ready.

Last edited by Beau; 01-03-2013 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:34 PM   #58
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I carry my semi-autos with exterior hammers like I do my revolvers, hammers down and double action ready.
IMHO unless you are very confident with 1. sweeping the safety and NOT discharging the weapon on draw, you are better off with a stiff da pull. I like the da/sa for that very reason, sure the da pull may be off, but the light sa follow up is going right in the 10 ring
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Old 01-03-2013, 02:36 PM   #59
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Simple...

A revolver perhaps...No one ever said a pistols is the only choice. If your not comfortable you won't carry. Seriously, take a good long look at a Revolver, my favorite is a Ruger GP100 SS .357mag. Carried by many police dept.'s for years, tough, reliable and safer for those who cannot put in the range time to really instinctively operate a semi. because you don't want to learn with only split seconds to work with. Be safe.



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Old 01-03-2013, 02:46 PM   #60
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"..Training and more training can make the process much faster, but when it comes time to shoot at someone, and hit what one is firing at, it's a different ballgame.".
Training at the range is a necessity for firing fundamentals, but like Grey says real life isn't close at all IMO. Your fine and even medium motor skills deplete to mush.

And if you don't carry chambered, how are you going to chamber a round when your slide won't go back? What, you forgot the safety was on and you weren't cocked and locked? Time is up.

I think the new hi stress training is a great thing if you can find a class.
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