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Carrying loaded

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Old 01-08-2013, 09:28 AM   #76
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Were you carrying concealed or open?
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:44 PM   #77
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+1 Anyone can carry a sidearm, but as mentioned most are inadequate if the situation arises in an instant. Training helps, but 8 hour CCW classes in NC are far from adequate in regards to training an individual for concealed carry which is intended to be for quick response to a threat. If it were up to me to watch Dems and Reps fight it out, the only outcome I would be comfortable with is some sort of "uniform training guidelines" and appropriate background checks vs. bans or Wild West gun laws. The problem we have today is there is no middle ground, and none of us want our 2nd Amendment rights taken away due to a few nut jobs. It's not about nanny state,but preserving our rights and affording some sort of compromise in an attempt to limit the amount of retards using guns to commit public murders and making all of us look bad to the nanny voters who wants the guns taken away (all 200 million of them).

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Originally Posted by GreyCoupe View Post
There's a lot to be said for this issue of prepared confidence and concealed carry.

Discussions like this one merit careful consideration and self-knowledge; training in situation assessment and some decision making in advance. Most of us are not even proficient in bringing a weapon to bear; have you drawn from a concealed holster and fired [remotely accurately] a thousand times? Five thousand times? Shouldn't we do this at a minimum, before we stroll through our communities carrying a lethal weapon?

This is not about home defense, I am talking about concealed carry. I agree with those who believe if one is going to carry, that he/she should be fully prepared to act, one in the pipe. What I am concerned about is that concealed carry should be restricted to those who are genuinely prepared to safely carry concealed. This preparation requires instant and accurate threat assessment, complete competence with the firearm you are carrying [and under stress], with that firearm loaded with the right ammo for the job, demonstrated mental preparedness, and a commitment to act against lethal threat.

Deliberation at the moment when action should be taken will burn precious time. Some situations are crystal clear. Many are not. Most of us can shoot an intruder threatening our families and where the threat is undeniable. These situations have nothing to do with carrying as we go about our lives. Someone is holding a gun on someone else in the parking lot as you stop for a quart of milk. You have a gun at your head before you even comprehend, "This is a mugging!" You are third in line at the busy cash register when the robber two ahead of you in line pulls a weapon, and both retail situations include a dozen people sprinkled within 25 feet...

I realize is not news, but the required training for receiving a permit is just simply inadequate. Most states are issuing permits with inadequate training, some with none at all.

The responsibilities of concealed carry are tremendous, and only begin with a permit. Instances where concealed carriers draw and fire often begin and end in seconds, with several rounds fired at close quarters. It is one thing to discuss and casually punch holes in paper, but hugely something else to draw a weapon from concealment, bring it to bear, and fire accurately at another person. Untrained shooters uncertain in a very frightening situation, mentally unprepared to shoot, can easily draw a weapon, hesitate, spook a bad guy and cause a shooting. Training and more training can make the process much faster, but when it comes time to shoot at someone, and hit what one is firing at, it's a different ballgame.

More important, look at all the incidents when trained law enforcement trade shots with bad guys from a few feet away and neither parties even hit their targets! With your heart beating out of your shirt, it's damned hard to get your shirt tail out of the way. Your hands have never sweat at the range like they'll be sweating if you are faced with drawing your weapon on a bad guy, you'll be lucky not to drop your weapon.

Faced with all this and more, the fact is many of us will do a better job of p***ing down our legs than taking a shot[s] that will take an assailant out of the fight.

So to the issue of carrying with one in the chamber, absolutely. If I am going to be prepared to defend myself, I want the shortest possible amount of time between recognizing I am in a life threatening situation, and defending myself, down to the micro second.

I absolutely believe in the right to carry, concealed or not. I simply believe all of us need 'way more training than most states require to issue concealed carry permits. In these situations, something beats nothing, but I sure would be more comfortable if I thought those carrying were prepared and proficient.

Last edited by 3Mastiff; 01-08-2013 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 01-09-2013, 09:39 PM   #78
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Training in KY is mostly extensive legal knowledge. You are expected to bring firing capabilities, safe handling and accuracy with you into and prior to the class.

Brandishing here means waiving it around in a threatening manor, probably helps if you shout that you are going to shoot someone. Even then, here you are likely to hear a reply, "whatever...".

I met a man serving time for firing a warning shot to break up a gang fight in his yard in city limits. That was considered brandishing and defined as "using lethal force". He was below average intelligence and could not afford a lawyer, and had a clean record. Into his 6th month in prison, Another lawyer promised to get it thrown out and get him out of prison. I along with everyone i talked to saw it as a travisty that he was sent to prison, and a travisty that the law would even be on the books to be misinterpreted so.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:20 PM   #79
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Is the 290 the RS model or non-RS model?

I ask b/c I have a P290 that is the early non-RS model. I assume but am not sure if both the RS and the non-RS work the same way in that once you chamber a round it goes to the half-cocked position with no way to decock it from the ready state.

Just wondering if the newer P290RS model is the same or if it goes to a non-half cocked state when a round is chambered.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:27 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Opie View Post
If you're racking the slide, you are brandishing and responding to a threat.
If you are carrying concealed in public, the gun should be in condition ONE;

Condition THREE: "clear weapon"; empty chamber, no magazine in gun
Condition TWO: unloaded chamber, full magazine, hammer down
Condition ONE: "loaded weapon", round in chamber, full magazine, hammer down(double action), hammer locked and safety engaged (single action)

The reason I have moved definitively to the SIG system in the last month is that I am changing from the single action "cocked and locked" carry to the double action "hammer down loaded chamber". The SIG system is the FINEST (IMHO) and one of the very safest DA/SA pistols to carry with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.

Last edited by ronin2; 01-28-2013 at 02:31 PM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:28 PM   #81
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agree
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:47 PM   #82
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Biggest reason I was considering a SA/DA handgun was carrying considerations. I don't mind having one in the pipe, but the hammer at the ready was a little unnerving (at least to someone that wasn't used to it). Using a SA/DA, you just need to get used to shooting (the first round) in SA with that heavy weight.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:56 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMarchione View Post
Biggest reason I was considering a SA/DA handgun was carrying considerations. I don't mind having one in the pipe, but the hammer at the ready was a little unnerving (at least to someone that wasn't used to it). Using a SA/DA, you just need to get used to shooting (the first round) in SA with that heavy weight.

FYI it is the other way round. First shot is double action. That is the heavy long trigger pull. After the first one it is single action lighter shorter pull.

Single Action = pulling trigger does only one thing --> releases the hammer which has to already be in a cocked position to work.

Double Action = pulling trigger does two things --> cocks the hammer back and then releases it.

DAO = every time you pull the trigger it pulls the hammer back and releases it. That is how a Double Action Revolver works and it is how DAO Semi-Autos work.


The P290 is said to have a DAO trigger but uses a half cocked position after racking the slide to put one into the chamber.
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Old 01-28-2013, 03:08 PM   #84
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I carry "Cocked and Locked." Only one time have I ever had to produce my gun when it was stressfull in doing so and time mattered. I would not have wanted to have had to rack it at that time. I hope to never be in a situation like that again. I did learn what you think you can do and what you can really do don't necesarily work out to be the same thing. Believe me, the less you have to do or think about will be to your advantage when split seconds and reduced movement really matters. Good Luck.



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Old 01-28-2013, 04:00 PM   #85
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Sorry, I knew that. That was more of a typo
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:55 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srcamp1 View Post
I am new to carrying concealed. I have a sig 290 and all safety courses I have ever taken have always talked about making sure the gun is empty and so forth. I guess I will get more comfortable carrying loaded it will get easier but for some reason when I carry my 290 the hammer being partially cocked makes me uneasy, I don't know why it just does. My wife has a bersa 380 and it don't bother me as much because I can let the hammer all the way down. Is this something that will get easier the more you carry?
I understand what you mean since you are new to carrying concealed. Keep in mind the Sig P290 is DAO and the hammer has to travel all the way to the rear before it releases to strike the firing pin. That is about as safe a pistol to carry with a round in the chamber as you can find. I agree with what every one says about carrying with a round in the chamber. There just may not be time to rack the slide when you need the gun the most. Still, having a gun even if you have to rack the slide beats not having one, Good Luck

Last edited by Spydertime; 01-29-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 01-28-2013, 05:32 PM   #87
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Carrying an unloaded weapon still makes you 1,000% more prepared than not carrying a weapon at all. If an unloaded weapon is "just a hammer", that's still one hammer more than what you had.

However...if you accept that you can and will apply deadly force when it's needed, then you obviously acknowledge the possibility that at any given time you may need every second you can get - and every advantage. Aren't you willing to risk the horribly remote chances of a sidearm malfunction for the horribly remote chances that you'll be ready when presented with certain death?
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:51 PM   #88
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If your not comfortable carrying with a round in the chamber loaded and prefer just a loaded mag w/ need to rack the slide more power to you.

Carry that way, get used to carrying, conform for yourself how you handle your weapon. If you have no issues with the trigger and control and later want to carry w/ one in the chamber then that's up to you.

Last edited by Gangplank; 01-29-2013 at 09:14 PM.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:00 AM   #89
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I intend to carry condition 1, Sig style.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:28 AM   #90
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If you are a new shooter and have purchased a pistol for personal protection BUT are having doubts whether you could actually shoot someone or you want your wife or daughter to have some protection but they won't consider a gun take a look at the Kimber Pepper Blaster II. I have purchased one for my wife, one for me and one for our daughter and a fourth one to demonstrate to them what happens when they pull the trigger. See U Tube videos. Amazon has them for less than $40.00. We shot the practice one at a target 14' away and it hit it hard in about a 18" circle. I now have my Sig P238 on my left hip (LH shooter) and a Kimber in its holster on my right. I truthfully don't know which one I would pull first. We have all taken the 8 hour NRA Basic Pistol Safety Course and Wife (reluctantly) and I have conceal/carry permits. She needs the permit if I leave a loaded pistol in our motorhome and I am not in it and I do. The Kimber is also useful to discourage aggressive dogs.

Jim

Last edited by jauguston; 01-30-2013 at 09:50 AM.
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