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Carrying loaded

This is a discussion on Carrying loaded within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; Originally Posted by bear007 I bought just a small plastic pack of 5 380ACP. You just use them over and over. You don't need a ...


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Old 01-31-2013, 07:09 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by bear007 View Post
I bought just a small plastic pack of 5 380ACP. You just use them over and over. You don't need a box of 50.
AGREED, which is why it's moronic for FN to sell boxes of 50. All I can think is that they're trying to sell to LE agencies who do need that many dummy rounds at a time.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:12 PM   #107
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If it is on me it always has on in the chamber.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:19 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by hwarang54 View Post
will you have time to take the sights off your target to rack the slide when adrenaline is pumping and you are faced with a deadly threat? .
Why did you have your weapon aimed without a round chambered to begin with?
It's about training and muscle memory. If you train yourself to carry with an empty chamber, then to chamber a round when you draw, EVERY TIME, you eventually don't have to think about it at all. If you carry cocked & locked, all the time, then train yourself to draw, aim, take the safety off, EVERY TIME. If you have a SIG with the hammer bar and no manual safety, with a round chambered, train yourself not to touch the trigger until you are aiming at the target, EVERY TIME (that one is also basic firearm safety)
Where it gets dangerous is in the "maybe it is and maybe it isn't" loaded situation. If you don't KNOW, then you do have to think, and possibly confuse yourself. This is how the majority of NDs happen, I am certain; "I didn't realize there was a round in the chamber."

Choose what makes YOU most comfortable, train to it, and do it. EVERY TIME.
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Old 01-31-2013, 09:58 PM   #109
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I always keep 1 in the chamber, in fact, I think the only time my carry firearm isn't loaded is when its being cleaned. Welcome from Virginia!
Same here.
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Old 02-01-2013, 05:05 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarthPaul View Post
Why did you have your weapon aimed without a round chambered to begin with?
It's about training and muscle memory. If you train yourself to carry with an empty chamber, then to chamber a round when you draw, EVERY TIME, you eventually don't have to think about it at all. If you carry cocked & locked, all the time, then train yourself to draw, aim, take the safety off, EVERY TIME. If you have a SIG with the hammer bar and no manual safety, with a round chambered, train yourself not to touch the trigger until you are aiming at the target, EVERY TIME (that one is also basic firearm safety)
Where it gets dangerous is in the "maybe it is and maybe it isn't" loaded situation. If you don't KNOW, then you do have to think, and possibly confuse yourself. This is how the majority of NDs happen, I am certain; "I didn't realize there was a round in the chamber."

Choose what makes YOU most comfortable, train to it, and do it. EVERY TIME.
Good point. Short answer is I don't know why u would aim without a round chambered.... Maybe out of fear, but the muscle memory thing SHOULD solve this problem

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Old 02-01-2013, 05:59 AM   #111
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I've only ever carried one hot. I guess being in law enforcement I cant do it any other way. I agree 100% with fully knowing your pistol. And, its dang right that the crook or whomever will surely 100% have one in the pipe.....To me, the time it takes to load one whether 1 2 or 3 seconds can cost a man his life. But, that's just me. To each their own.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:53 AM   #112
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I've only ever carried one hot. I guess being in law enforcement I cant do it any other way. I agree 100% with fully knowing your pistol. And, its dang right that the crook or whomever will surely 100% have one in the pipe.....To me, the time it takes to load one whether 1 2 or 3 seconds can cost a man his life. But, that's just me. To each their own.
We also are picturing different scenarios, probably. For LE it is usually different. (You didin't mention if you are uniform or plainclothes, but if you are uniformed, your weapon is already in the open and most of what I am about to say doesn't apply to you.)

If there is already a weapon aimed at you, it's too late to draw anyway, you'd better get your ^ss into solid cover. Only in the Wild West do we have quickdraw shootouts at 10 yards.

The more likely scenario is similar to the events at the Clackamas Town Center (which I've already mentioned elsewhere, but maybe not on this thread). In that case, the criminal with an AR had shot 2 people already and jammed his rifle. In the area nearby was an armed CPL holder. He first made sure his companion & her child were in safe cover, then drew and took a firing position himself (in his account that I have read onlne). He swears that the shooter made eye contact with him while reloading his AR, at the time he was ALREADY aiming at the shooter. In the event he didn't fire, as he saw civilians in the danger space beyond the target, and the shooter retreated to the location where he committed suicide.

I guess my point is, if the AR had ALREADY been aimed at him, the gent with the CCW would be screwed. The action of drawing would provoke fire, regardless of having a round chambered or not. The only scenario that I can imagine ending well is if a criminal does not know you are armed, AND has his attention elsewhere, giving you time to draw and take action without getting shot first: i.e., you have the element of surprise. In those circumstances, the sound of the weapon chambering is likely going to be drowned out by the rest of the noise in the environment anyway.

Once again, not trying to tell anyone what to do, just stating my opinion that the method you are trained in and most comfortable with is going to make you more confident and prepared in a crisis, and that is what will get you through.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:04 AM   #113
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Originally Posted by hwarang54 View Post
Good point. Short answer is I don't know why u would aim without a round chambered.... Maybe out of fear, but the muscle memory thing SHOULD solve this problem

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I don't have a good answer to the 'fear' element, except, once again, TRAINING and being prepared. Anticipate what your response should be in a given situation. This may sound paranoid, but I almost constantly am running scenarios in my mind wherever I am, planning how to react if something happens. When I walk into the grocery store or gas station, I am anticipating what to do if there is a robbery in progress. At a red light, I look around at pedestrians to decide who might be a carjacker, and whether to try for escape or to draw my pistol.

Hopefully on the day ***** gets real, all the mental preparation and muscle memory will see me through. I'll let you know.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:08 AM   #114
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I think some important points should be stated. When and if you ever need to deploy your firearm, if it is not ready for instant use, the fight may have already been lost. I know guns are very dangerous, and keeping one in battery makes some fearful, but remember the situation where you would use this tool is one fraught with danger and most likely a high degree of responsive fear (fight or flight). A gun reduces the probability of death or severe injury, to the trained user, rather than elevating it. I have been around guns the vast majority of my life and have seen both responsible and irresponsible owners/users. Carrying or even owning a gun bears great and grave responsibilities to their owners, the least not being safety. A SA semi auto pistol "Cocked & Locked" in the proper holster offers no more of a safety loss value than a pin fired semi in condition 3. It is the gun in the hand where safety experiences the greatest breakdown. What is the first thing you do when some one hands you a semi auto gun? Drop the mag, clear the chamber and leave slide back locked in the open position. I hardly see that at my LGS, Shows even friends showing friends - the most fundamental of gun safety behavior. If you make your handling of guns, even by those around you, one of great safety you develop a very different mindset. It is through control and management of safety that you develop confidence in your equipment. Of course that assumes you practice extensively with gun, holster and shooting techniques. I am amazed at the large number of people who buy any gun put 2 boxes through it and say I'm ready, Right! The experience too many people rely on is gained on TV or at the movies, and let me state clearly, ANYONE who has been in a life threatening situation will tell you it's not going to go the way you think. Seconds become your enemy. Your shirt, holster are all in the way and you are already in the position of reacting by scanning for some cover. Your breathing is fast and shallow, your heart begins to race uncontrollably and you have tunnel vision. You lose fine motor skills as adrenaline races through your system. Your hands and body will tremble as you feel intense pressure building in your body and head as you fight to control your senses, all the while attempting to assess all that is happening from sensory overload and what you should do. ALL THAT IN LESS THAN 5 SECONDS!
...and you'll rack a slide to chamber a round?
Practice with your gun, get to know every detail about it, handle it and shoot it often from various positions, standing, kneeling, laying down etc. 2 handed, 1 handed and weak handed. Get to know what your gun will do and won't do for you, making safety your priority all along. As your knowledge increases so will your confidence (never rely on confidence from familiarity as there is an important distinction). Fear is the result of not knowing. Eliminate that as much as you can from your firearms handling. That is your single greatest responsibility. That is why professionals Practice - Practice - Practice!

I didn't write all I should have, But I probably wrote more than most people care to read.



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Old 02-01-2013, 12:49 PM   #115
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Last gun class I took, IIRC, the FBI statistics averages on gunfights:
occur at about 10 feet, total of 3 shots fired and is over in about 2.3 seconds.

I bet you, that those 2.3 seconds for the LEO or anyone last an eternity.
Bottom line is train by taking classes and shoot often at the range.
(if you can find bullets)

Last edited by RedBaron; 02-01-2013 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 02:54 PM   #116
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Your 290 is not at half cock, the hammer is sitting in the safety intercept notch. It is one of several passive safeties designed to make the gun incapable of firing unless the trigger is pulled.
Get some good training, it will mitigate your nervousness and make you comfortable carrying the gun in the way it was designed.
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