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Frangible

This is a discussion on Frangible within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; I originally posted this in the ammo section but am not getting many looks and no response. I thought I'd put it here hoping to ...


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Old 01-27-2013, 06:18 AM   #1
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Frangible

I originally posted this in the ammo section but am not getting many looks and no response. I thought I'd put it here hoping to get an opinion or better yet some facts, hopefully from a LEO or ammo expert.
I was wanting some opinion on self defense ammo. I was watching a little YouTube video on ballistics with gel using frangible ammo. Looking at the results it looks as if frangible would be much more damaging and create more of a shock than a hollow point.
I would be using 40 S&W.
Thoughts? Opinions?Facts?
Which would be more devastating to human flesh and be a more "stop dead in your tracks" load. Hollow point or frangible?
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:10 AM   #2
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Those types of rounds are best left at the range if they are made for training. You would want frangible rounds made specifically for self defense before you should use them in your home.

Now, on a plane or ship, they could be helpful but keep in mind, they will penetrate anything weaker than their own structure so the can still probably penetrate drywall.
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Old 01-27-2013, 07:12 AM   #3
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I am no expert, but if by frangible you mean a bullet that fragments, I would think that an expanding hollowpoint would cause more shock. My logic would he throwing a big rock into water as opposed to small pebbles. While total damage done by fragments would be greater, the overall shock would be smaller. Read this as you will be more likely to kill a person without achieving the desired effect of stoppage. The smaller fragments would cause more channels for a slow bleedout. The bigger bullet would create the bigger internal shockwave.

Again, no expert, just opinion.

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Old 01-27-2013, 07:17 AM   #4
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A buddy of mine explained this one at length with me, and my takeaway from this discussion was that hollow points offer better penetration and are therefore better for self-defense.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:43 AM   #5
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In my opinion, frangible ammo breaks up on impact and delivers a more particulate projectile and creates more areas for slow bleed out but a slow bleed out in a self defense scenario is NOT what you want! The desired effect would be a shock value that creates collateral damage to surrounding tissue from the shock value itself. The point is to effect as much tissue as quickly as possible. Thus creating increased stopping power.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:45 AM   #6
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i agree
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Old 01-27-2013, 10:20 AM   #7
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we used frangible rounds at the Police Academy. I would not consider ita personal defense round. It breaks upon impact with something harder that it.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:53 AM   #8
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In handguns frangible ammo is wrong headed thinking. They generally have too shallow penetration to be effective. Glasers were designed to avoid penetrating the skin of an aircraft not because they were an effective manstopper.

Now you have some kool aid brewers like Peter Pi, Evan Marshall, and Ed Sanow who used fraud science to prove something else with the lie filled tome "The Definitive Guide to Handgun Stopping Power" and a couple of follow on volumes of equally usless/junk/dishonest science. There contentions have been soundly disproved time and again.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:27 PM   #9
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Also, frangible rounds do not expand so well in flesh and offer the same expansion of a 22LR in most cases. Not really a great round to use.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:56 PM   #10
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We've been asked to use these rounds as a preference on the bowling pin range. I guess because they don't poke holes in the pins and they (the pins) last longer.

So.... If they are preferred because they are nicer to a bowling pin, doesn't sound like a home defense round to me. I'm far from being any expert though.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:01 PM   #11
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Frangible rounds are specifically designed to avoid stray rounds hitting an unintended target by fragmenting when hitting glass, wood, car doors, airplane skin, etc...

A frangible round can CERTAINLY kill a man, but will not be as effective as a JHP, or even a FMJ round. If you are worried at all about missing, and perhaps the round traveling into an adjoining bedroom where your kids are sleeping, then frangible rounds are a good choice. Drywall alone won't stop them entirely, but they WILL NOT travel as far as either of the above listed rounds.

If you are not as concerned about where any stray rounds might end up, then go with JHP or FMJ; they will do more damage. That said, I certainly wouldn't volunteer to get shot with a frangible. It would still suck.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:04 PM   #12
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Might also be worth noting, that people still die very effectively from our soldiers shooting FMJ.

FMJ may not offer the same "expansion" that seems to be so highly desired by most people buying personal defense rounds, but if you put a .22 in the right spot, it's going to do the trick.
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Old 01-27-2013, 05:04 PM   #13
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Frangible ammo

I picked up a box this weekend after watching a few youtube videos. In gel covered with three layers of denim. It penetrates anywhere from 10-14 inches and fragments up to three inches at its greatest depth. I know gel and human flesh are two different things. I sure hope too never have the need but on the other hand don't want to take the chance it won't perform if my life depended on it. I will just shoot it up at the range and buy some critical defense
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