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This is a discussion on Help me. Lol... within the SIG Sauer Pistols forums, part of the SIG Sauer Forum category; Originally Posted by SnakeShooter17 I still never recommend carrying FMJs in a CCW gun. There's still more of a chance that a plugged hollowpoint will ...


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Old 01-31-2013, 01:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by SnakeShooter17 View Post
I still never recommend carrying FMJs in a CCW gun. There's still more of a chance that a plugged hollowpoint will expand, whereas an FMJ only expands when it hits something REALLY hard. The only time I recommend carrying FMJ for CCW is when it is in a reserve magazine if you need to punch through a wall, glass, or car door. There are some hollowpoint designs that, regardless of being plugged, still expand in gelatin after passing through four layers of denim. The Federal HST comes to mind. Hollowpoints loaded in high-quality self defense cartridges are developed with very advanced technology and have an extremely high chance of expanding, as long as it has the velocity to do it.

I'll point to a series of videos on youtube of an independent tester...

TNOUTDOORS9 Guns & Ammo Reviews - YouTube

TnOutdoors9 has done lots of ammo reviews in 9mm, .40, and .45 Auto. Watch some of his playlists. I'm always impressed with modern hollowpoints. Pick one for max penetration during wintertime (heavy-for-caliber), and go high-speed, light-for-caliber for summertime (less penetration). Regardless, I doubt that "heavy winter clothing" is going to make much difference on a full-metal-jacket round, which is easily capable of passing through FEET of water (read: really effin' dense material).
The reason I prefer Hornady Critical Defense rounds for Carry/HD is because the tip they insert in the hollow point takes away any potential clogging issues.

Both the 9 mm and .40 will be fine for HD/SD as long as you choose the proper ammunition. If I had to have only one gun (I own most calibers for different uses) it would most likely be a 9 mm. Less recoil, cheaper to shoot, enough stopping power and you get more rounds in the mag than .40's and .45's.
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Old 01-31-2013, 01:12 PM   #17
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You have to take into account bullet shape and bullet design..300 Winchester tends to be pointy, like most rifle rounds. They are meant, for all terms and purposes, to shoot like a dart. Rifle rounds are built and designed differently. They are usually designed for accuracy and power over long ranges while pistols are not. Most pistol rounds are blunt, so its more like throwing a stone. The op wanted to know about 9mm and .40 s&w. That's the info I gave.

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Old 01-31-2013, 02:26 PM   #18
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No, because this literally makes no sense.
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It all comes down to total energy. A small bullet that flies fast has lots of energy, as does a heavy bullet that flies slowly. HOWEVER, if the bullet flies THROUGH the target, you lost a lot of that potential "stopping" energy, as we are talking about defensive purposes.
If a bullet does not make a pass through the target, the body dissipates the entire energy of the bullet from the moment it made contact with the skin or clothing on the target.
Just because a bullet passes through a target does not mean it somehow transferred less energy to the target. If anything, a clean pass through indicates that the target adsorbed more energy by virtue of the fact that the bullet passed the first bullets stopping point in the target and traveled a longer distance through the medium and still passed through the target.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:28 PM   #19
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Gentlemen, I'm sure we can agree to disagree politely. I do in fact reject some range/lab style testing for actual field record in relation to performance characteristics. To be clear what is legally and professionally documented from actual shootings is important for our deliberations as opposed solely to manufacturers specs. Performance is affected greatly by outer garments (type and quantity) and angle of impact, neither consistently considered in lab testing............AAggghhh!

Rats! Called for dinner again, forget bullet performance... you don't screw around with the She Bear. I'll finish this later.



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Old 01-31-2013, 02:33 PM   #20
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It's true. Lab tests are good to show the potentiality of a round in a controlled environment. But like you said, those tests don't account for angle, clothing, bone, etc.
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Old 01-31-2013, 02:46 PM   #21
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No, because this literally makes no sense.


If a bullet does not make a pass through the target, the body dissipates the entire energy of the bullet from the moment it made contact with the skin or clothing on the target.
Just because a bullet passes through a target does not mean it somehow transferred less energy to the target. If anything, a clean pass through indicates that the target adsorbed more energy by virtue of the fact that the bullet passed the first bullets stopping point in the target and traveled a longer distance through the medium and still passed through the target.
This is my logic

Mass x velocity^2 = energy. If the amount of mass you carry continues to move, it has velocity. Therefore, if a bullet passes THROUGH something, it still has velocity, the bullet still has mass, and therefore still has energy. If the mass of the object stops (inside the target), velocity becomes zero, therefore it has zero energy. This was the reason for creating the hollowpoint round. It causes the bullet to expand, creating a larger wound cavity, and creating more surface area, thus creating more drag to stop the bullet inside the target. The faster an object is forced to stop, the more energy it releases. Thus the statement "It's not the fall that kills you, its the sudden stop at the end."

It's all about where the bullet ultimately stops, and how fast that stoppage occurred.

Don't get me wrong, the second the bullet leaves the barrel at terminal velocity, it begins to lose energy. Even a bullet that passes through an object still releases energy inside the target, just not all of it, or as much as it could.

I don't know too much about practical wound ballistics. I know enough physics to make this assertion.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:12 PM   #22
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If size is not an issue then it really doesn't matter which one you go with. I like the P226, they are both a little heavy for IWB. I've been carrying my P226 .40 IWB for 6 month now and I had to change over to a XDM sub compact as I was starting to get leg and back problems and whew is the XDM light now compared to what I was carrying. I love my P226 and I am not into subcompact low capacity firearms, only hi cap.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:45 PM   #23
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I bought the 2022 9mm for home, ammo is cheaper. I have been looking for a carry myself, so far I've shot the Glock 23 and the Karh cw9, Springfield XDM compact 9mm and the Kimber Carry ll, so far like the Kimber, I'm also looking at the Springfield EMP as well, need to shoot the EMP before I make my final decision.
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